In a discussion over on Craig's blog, One Salient Oversight wrote:
One important thing to note is that there is sometimes a logical fallacy to this truth. I.e.:
1) Babies are a blessing from God.
2) If you refuse to have children you are refusing God's blessing.
3) To refuse God's blessing is sin.
Points 1 & 2 are correct, but point 3 is not. Alcohol and sex and meat offered to idols come to mind.
This is an issue I've been pondering quite a lot lately. There seem to be a lot of Christians who think that it is not a legitimate choice for a Christian couple to choose not to have children.
From another post on Craig's blog:
A friend made a comment tonight that I thought was pretty good. He said, "If you are not ready for children, you are not ready for marriage. And if you are not ready for marriage, you are not a man. You are just a boy with a drivers license and the right to vote."
Matt and I are getting married in June, but we're not sure yet if we want to have children. We do acknowledge that no contraception is fail proof, and that if God wants us to have children, it will happen. And of course, if I did get pregnant when we weren't planning it, there would be no question of not seeing it through, and I'm sure we'd be grateful for God's blessing. But it is necessary for all married Christian couples to want to have children, and to pursue that goal from the very beginning of marriage?
13 comments:
The only comment I have is one I received about 6 years ago from a very famous evangelical Syd preacher with the initials PJ, who said "The problem with choosing childlessness is when one of you changes your mind" which he thought was likely to happen.
At the time I was devastated and thought that meant I would never get married, because I couldn't see having children. Now I just think who would ever want to marry me anyway? and the question over children doesn't come into it as much.
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Gen 1:27-28
This was the concept that changed my mind on this issue. I'd previously had people tell me that children were a blessing from God and about how in the OT people are so sad about not having children. But - that's an argument that's specific to an OT context, where God's kingdom is built on race, and your family is significant and you need someone to carry on the family name. But as Christians, we have a spiritual family, and our family increases through spreading the gospel.
However, in Gen 1, Adam and Eve (symbolic of all humanity, I take it) are commanded to multiply and fill the earth and subdue it. So, even if we have filled the earth (as some might say), the command to multiply still stands.
I don't take it that means that all Christians will have children, but I think that there is actually a commandment to the man and woman that tells them to. I'll leave to you the question of whether disobeying that commandment is sin.
if you don't want children, don't get married - remain single for the gospel and let your partner or yourself be free to marry people who you do want children with!
I think Tim has it right in the middle, saying that it shouldn't be about race anymore. Therefore there's no imperative to have children.
The reason parenthood is revered in all cultures (not just Christianity) is because parents shape the next generation and ensure the survival of the society. But it's not just about popping out organic matter (otherwise Britney Spears would be respected!); it's about the shaping.
If you're good with children you can either have your own and raise them well or, better still, you can recognise that the world is already filled and adopt some and raise them well.
If your forte is academia, then you can help influence the next generation by both teaching well and by publishing things that will be read by generations to come.
Ideas are much more important than DNA.
That being said, I do agree with Dawkin's claim that the indoctrination of children into a particular religion (to the exclusion of all others) is a (mild) form of child abuse. If a person has not reached the age of reason, we should find phrases like "Christian child" and "Muslim child" as incongruous as "Communist child" or "Conservative child".
Remind me, Lara, do you still disagree with infant baptism? How does Matt feel? (I'm sure it would have been on your list of questions.)
I believe that, from God's perspective, children are the normal fruit of marriage, based on Malachi 2:15. "But did He not make them one...? And why one? He seeks godly offspring." He seeks the formation of new Christians through passing on the faith in families, from one generation to the next.
Of course, not all Christian couples will be able to have children, but this is because we live in a fallen world. The Lord has other ways for infertile couples to serve him, whether through adoption or in some other way. But it is normative for all married couples to "expect" to have children.
As a personal comment, I wanted to toss in that I really hope you will be open to having children! I have been married 20 years, and my husband and I have found that the presence of our children only multiplies the love we have for each other! There is something awesome and almost holy about standing together by the cribside, watching your baby sleep; or marveling at the tiny face of your child, looking exactly like your spouse in miniature! Or laughing together as you watch them learn and grow and see their minds and personalities unfold. Sure, parenthood has its challenges, but the blessings far outweigh the hardships!
Oops, wanted to clarify this part of my post:
"But it is normative for all married couples to 'expect' to have children."
I meant that it is normative for all Christian couples!
This is an issue I continue to ponder.
PJ's argument seems a little weak. By the same token, couldn't you say "The problem with choosing marriage is when one of you changes your mind." Of course a change of mind creates a problem, but does it render the initial decision wrong by itself?
Tim's point is a crucial one - the place of the original blessing/command (is it a command or a blessing?), or rather the recipients of it. I assume it doesn't apply to every human or Jesus failed to be properly human. He also makes a second crucial point. The church is built through proclamation, not simply procreation, which is why single people are not being "unfruitful". But does marriage bring an obligation to have children?
As for the second quote about being a man, this rules out singleness as a legitimate, mature option (as a number of the commenters on Craig's blog noted). Singleness is not a second-best option in which one must always be ready to be married. I doubt either Jesus or Paul were "ready to be married" but just lacked a suitably docile woman. Why ought singleness be an occasional exception?
As for the indoctrination of children, it is absolutely necessary. It can be done poorly or abusively, but the logic of Dawkin's position ought to lead him to the rejection of all schooling, or of all parenting. Isn't it indoctrination to teach a child to eat meat, when there are other options available? Or to speak English? Dawkins assumes an obvious and impermeable line between faith and reason which is simplistic and ignorant of how both these words are understood within traditions other than his own very narrow version of scientism. Baptise away! :-)
There is a part of me (I am not sure if it is useful part right now or not) which thinks that this is a debate that could only be taking place between Christians in a first world context. I live in sub-saharan Africa where 2/3 or more of the adult population lives on less than $1(US) a day, where around a third of the population is HIV positive, and where thousands of children are orphaned monthly leading to many childheaded homes. In this context bt's comment is too absurd for me to even find it hurtful. Although I do find the implicit judgement of those who may, for instance, choose to adopt rather than hve their own children rather sad. I guess I am drawn to focus more on the big picture.
Matthew, can you explain why you think that the situation you experience makes this discussion absurd?
I can't speak for bt, but it seems that her comment is open to the possibility of couples adopting rather than having children.
PS I am not at all questioning the relevance of your comment, I just want to hear more.
this is an intersting and challanging question indeed. My husband and I when we were engaged talked about having our own children and then adopting. Now almost three years of being married, going through infertility and praying about adopting, we have now hit the fork in the road. I see patterns in my husbands behavior (ex. lacking the press on when things get hard and him shutting down) that I would not want to bring children into that. I as an adult struggle with his I want to be alone behavior, why would I bring children into that? God has closed my womb for a reason and I respect that. I am seeking his comfort as he as now allow me to see the closed door to adoption. I work as a teacher so I feel that I will get my fill on shaping children and I have four neices that I can spoil! I need to focus on my marriage before children!
My hubby and I have been married over 30 years...we chose not to have children for many reasons and boy was there lots of guilt put on me by others. I found out you have to follow God's will for you not follow what others are doing. God does not make cookie cutter Christians. If I started to have children because others told me it was the right thing to do, I would be following their words, not God's exact plan for me and it would have never have had God's blessings. Are we all missionaries to deepest darkest Africa? Are we all Sunday School teachers?
I never had a desire to have children but had plenty of rescue cats and horses and God told me I would reach people that regular family types would never be able to reach.
And the poor lady who drowned her 5 kids..she already had mental problems, her doctor said she had post partum depression and her husband was told she should not have more kids, look what happened. btw, divorce is looked down on, the man divorced her now that she is in jail, but he is married and starting a whole new family. Is something wrong with that picture? What about the promise he made to her at their wedding?
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